Author Topic: Buzacott Farm Pumper.  (Read 15414 times)

cobbadog

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #30 on: 22 April, 2014, 07:34:19 am »
Thanks for the replies, I can get confused at times very easily. Well Dee has named the engine and all will be declared soon.
Cheers, John & Dee. Coopernook. NSW.

Eric Schulz

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #31 on: 22 April, 2014, 09:39:50 am »
Had a look at what I wrote and can see that it can be misinterpreted. It was perfectly clear to me!!

What I meant was that some people are unsure of spark timing so as a result set it incorrectly at TDC. No, I repeat, no engine was ever designed to fire at TDC when running.

Eric

cobbadog

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #32 on: 23 April, 2014, 04:40:25 pm »
How many times have you heard what I am about to say?
I put the final parts together today and then installed the magneto and gave it a try to start, but only got a no go situation. Not even a backfire, a splutter or anything. Something that I did notice first of all was that there was air puffing up through the fuel mixture needle which has always been there but I never have noticed anything making noises there before. I thought maybe the inlet valve was not shutting completely and that 'paint' may have been the issue. So a few quick fully open and allowing it to slam shut by itself under the pressure of the spring appears to have been enough to stop that awful sound from there. Then I noticed a heap of fuel running out of the lower muffler. I mopped this up as best I could and went looking further for the issue. My thoughts went to being a bad earth from 'paint' again as so many times this is the big problem after a freshen up. Well I checked the spark and it was poor both at the plug and against the body of the magneto itself. So out came the points. Absolutely filthy and as these points can be separated I re dressed them using an oil stone to give 2 nice flat and clean surfaces. Another go at starting was made and again no bangs from the exhaust, no huffing from the mixture screw and again fuel dripping from the lower muffler. Off comes the magneto and into the vice and a quick spin by hand shows a big bright spark against the body. Happy with that I went back to it being an earth issue. So I cleaned the bottom of the magneto up with a file, scraped the bracket cleaner with the file where the magneto sits along with all mounting bolts. I refitted the magneto again with the points just starting to crack open at the SPARK timing mark arrow pointing right at the push rod for the exhaust valve. This is exactly where it always has been timed and the engine started and ran beautifully pre all this work I have done. With the spark plug out and cranking the flywheel at speed the spark at the plug is fair. To check this I just rested the spark plug across the plug hole and cranked. It should be enough to start on any other day but not today. I tried another spark plug and still no go.
 Any ideas are welcomed as to what I have missed, not done or need to do.
Cheers, John & Dee. Coopernook. NSW.

Mick Christie

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #33 on: 23 April, 2014, 06:53:05 pm »
Couple of thoughts. Have u got the magneto timed on the right stroke of the engine? Or are you sure your plug lead is ok. Maybe when bench testing you are twisting the lead in the cap/pickup and making a better contact but when stretched out to reach the plug on the engine the connection is not as good?
collector of exotic american built sideshaft engines in gippsland victoria

HardWorkingMan

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #34 on: 23 April, 2014, 08:47:12 pm »
Maybe a crack in the plug lead?

famous fitter

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #35 on: 23 April, 2014, 09:32:38 pm »
Is it the cork gasket between the fuel tank restricting the air  ??

rustyengines

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #36 on: 23 April, 2014, 09:46:42 pm »
restricting the air
That might explain why you have all the fuel running out of the exhaust. all fuel no air
Ian 
Southern Cross Engines, Lawn Mowers and old tools * TOWNSVILLE

cobbadog

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #37 on: 24 April, 2014, 05:15:52 pm »
These are all good questions.
With the plug lead, it is a long lead so when turned back onto the magneto it sparks big time so I have not tried to sit the magneto on the mounting bracket and spin it to see the spark against the head. So I will look at doing something like this.

Timing issue! I was not aware with a hit n miss engine that I could time it wrong as each time the piston is at TDC (one full revolution) the timing mark is in the same place. So basically it has the capacity to spark each TDC.

Cork gasket has been made exactly as the one I replaced. It sits completely against the bottom of the fuel mixer and has a hole large enough to go over a small flange that is where the fuel pick up line goes down through. So when it needs air it can go down through that opening. I just may have to have another look but it is an exact copy of the original.

Tomorrow will be a look and see type of day. Any other thoughts on the timing on a Farm Pumper?
Cheers, John & Dee. Coopernook. NSW.

oceans15

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #38 on: 24 April, 2014, 07:03:22 pm »
Hi John - it most certainly is possible to wrongly time a four stroke engine to 'TDC rocking' as Mick Christie already said. Many 'restorers' are not aware of this and it comes back to fundamental four cycle engine understanding. If the maggy is timed to the crankshaft and fires every TDC it doesn't matter but if it is valve (cam) timed it does matter. I also had a very similar sounding problem as yours. I did a quick valve lap on a SC pumper for my club and then it wouldn't start and appeared to be flooding. Maggy wasn't touched. I spaced the tank away from the fuel mixer or carby and it has been starting first go ever since! Who knew?!?!
Piston pumps, Australs and Diesel Ronnies - Inboard Marine engines - Eatons Hill - Qld

cobbadog

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #39 on: 25 April, 2014, 05:28:35 pm »
It does go again!!!
If only I read the signs and stopped guessing at what was the problem. Remember I mentioned the problem with fuel running out the bottom muffler? Well that was the best clue I had to go by. I did everything within my power to ensure the magneto was right, dressed the contact points, gapped them and timed the magneto to the SPARK timing mark which as it happens is every revolution of the flywheel, no matter how many times you turn it over. I cleaned the spark plug thread out in the head  just to make sure the plug made good contact but all of this made no difference to the no start problem. SO off comes the fuel tank and mixer. I grabbed the old gasket (fortunately still in one piece, just squashed flat) and placed it on the fuel tank, all good. Then I put the same gasket onto the fuel mixer, 'Hey Presto' found the problem. I did not remove what I thought was a piece of excess gasket that sat over the lip of the fuel tank. As it turns out, this is how the thing breaths in the air. It also explains the funny sounds early on about air rushing in and out of the mixer and up through the small hole in the mixture needle. I removed the excess bit of gasket and it sparked into life. I ran the engine for about 15 minutes and had no problems. I stopped and restarted the engine and again all good, and I did this a few times then no go again. So I spent the last couple of hours working this out. Again it was the new gasket. I bought a new sheet of 3mm cork gasket and made the new gasket with that just as the original one was. The problem this time was that the new cork gasket is not as good as the old stuff and had distorted a bit and swelled up a bit and may have been blocking off the area between the mixture needle and where the choke butterfly is. I simply cut that out and it is all systems go again.
I know from the past that cork gasket paper with what looks like rubber mixed in with it is no good with petrol so this is why I bought just a sheet of straight cork only gasket paper but it would seem that it too maybe no good. I will do another start up and run tomorrow and see how things go. All of this has made a real mess of the nice clean looking engine so a clean up is also on the agenda.
You can see below the pics of the gaskets the difference from What was needed and what I made.
Cheers, John & Dee. Coopernook. NSW.

famous fitter

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #40 on: 25 April, 2014, 07:30:27 pm »
Is it the cork gasket between the fuel tank restricting the air  ??
I am worth far more money ???? Glad you got it sorted Cheers Justin

rustyengines

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #41 on: 25 April, 2014, 10:24:58 pm »
Hi Famous Fitter cobbadog might have to rename the engine after you or maybe you could have naming rights
Ian
Southern Cross Engines, Lawn Mowers and old tools * TOWNSVILLE

cobbadog

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #42 on: 26 April, 2014, 10:05:56 am »
Hi Justin and Ian,
Yes, a big thanks to you for the tip on the gasket. I never knew that they were suppose to breath through there! No wonder it sounded like laboured breathing at first. Now all I need to do is try and clean up all the fuel, oil and carbon mix that has run out the exhaust.
What are the thoughts on the cork gasket sheets that are available at the moment. As I mentioned in the past I have had problems with the rubberised cork in a fuel situation but this plain cork gasket seems a bit 'how ya going' at best too. It did distort between the large hole for the fuel pick up line and the choke butterfly area and caused another stoppage and I had to cut that out too.

I started to hear a slight 'knock' in the area of the big end bearing, I think. Can this be fixed, if needed, by removing it through the inspection hole on the side?
How tricky or easy is it to do?
What clearances should it have?

Thanks again for everyone's help and comments.
Cheers, John & Dee. Coopernook. NSW.

famous fitter

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #43 on: 26 April, 2014, 11:28:13 am »
none of my pumpers have a gasket fitted at all. did they even have one from new ?

rustyengines

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Re: Buzacott Farm Pumper.
« Reply #44 on: 26 April, 2014, 12:20:54 pm »
In the SOUTHERN CROSS pumper parts list there is no gasket mentioned for the carburetor
Ian   
Southern Cross Engines, Lawn Mowers and old tools * TOWNSVILLE