Campbelltown Steam Museum May 2016

[Triumphline]

We had a nice family day at Campbelltown Steam Museum with my son's favourite engine.


A few more pics from today at:
http://www.oldengine.org/members/pml/cammay16/index.htm
Enjoy!
Patrick

[Austral]

That looks to me to be a rally well worth attending and, thanks to the photo spread supplied I feel like I was there. Although in reality I was at the Gisborne rally, an hour or so from Melbourne. Also a good day out, but not of the size of Campbelltown.
Your engine Patrick, looks fine in its ferrous oxide livery and although now lacking the factory finish, appears clean and well polished in the bright metal areas. How you are able to attend to an exhibit whilst capturing so many photos during the day is beyond my comprehension.
Do you not have the starting lamp and wheelstays for your engine?  When I see evidence of a gas bottle it reminds me of the time when an experienced Blackstone operator who is no longer with us, told me that "The heat from the gas torch is far too intense and will eventually lead to a cracked vaporiser. I'm pleased to see that you have the correct lamp for your engine."
That is a quote from over twenty years ago and I've never forgotten it.
Regards,
Austral.

[Triumphline]

Hi Austral,
the engine is pretty much how I purchased it (just well cleaned and oiled). It had major mechanical repairs during restoration and the restorer removed what paint was left. I wouldn't mind giving this engine a proper paint job but I have too many projects and little free time. I have had wheel-stay bolts made (as the wheels are different to the later engines and the standard bolts don't fit) but I have not fitted the timbers yet.
I have lamps for two of my lamp engines which I sometimes use but often use the LPG. In 30 years of playing engines I have never seen an Austral vapouriser cracked due to LPG. The only cracked or broken Austral vapourisers I have come across have been due to impacts or frost cracked (due to water getting into abandoned engines). Blackstone vapourisers are a bit thinner in the casting than Austral ones.
Patrick

[Kim S]

Too my own understanding when talking about gas torches for starting engines its a oxy acetylene torch that cracks hot bulbs and not a propane torch, is this the case ? on the other hand those old kero blow lamps are most aggressive as well ?  is this the case ?

[John 54]

Hi Kim
You are right about oxy acetylene  never use it to start an engine it is far too hot. Lots of people use LPG without damaging their engines. It would be interesting to know the difference in temperature of the LPG and the standard starting lamp. The starting lamp has one distinct advantage over the LPG burner that is you can cook dinner on it with out any mods, all you need is a fry pan or sauce pan!!!
Regards John 

[Kim S]

Yes the old Primus handy torch or similar would have a hard time pushing out the BTU's like the old blow lamps, the lamp on my Hornsby puts out a good 2 foot of flame ! some of those Austral lamps have multiple burners the hot bulbs must be tough to take that amount of heat ! it was a good turn out at Campbelltown this year painted and unpainted Australs and all , must say i like the engines in their working clothes so much easier too look after and authentic ?

Kim

[John 54]

Hi Kim
There are two ways to get the BTU's out of a Starting Lamp (1) use one big burner similar to the Hornsby and Lanz or (2) use multiple smaller burners like the Austral. It depends on the engine's design. Engines that have single large burner starting lamps have smaller and thicker hot bulbs and shroud. I think we should differentiate here between the Hot Bulb of the Hornsby and Lanz etc and the Fuel Vaporiser of the Austral's. The Austral vaporiser is much larger and longer and runs at a lower temperature, by using multiple smaller burners it heats the vaporiser more evenly than a single burner, thus reducing the tendency for hot spots and cracking ( one reason I don't like using a single burner LPG torch on an Austral).
Regards John

[Kim S]

Interesting, I would have thought in the case of a Blackstone or Austral the starting heat would be as much as a  Hornsby  or more as the heat has too travel through the walls of the hot bulb and radiate too and bring the starting coil up too temp ?

Kim

[John 54]

Hi Kim
I don't believe the lamp has to heat the coil, that is done by the combustion of the engine. The lamp heats the bottom of the 2 chambers in the combustion section of the vaporiser this starts the engine, some times you find coils in this section to aid starting.
I don't know, is the Hornsby's hot bulb part of the combustion chamber or is it like the vaporiser on Austral's and Blackstones, a pre combustion chamber similar to the chamber on an indirect injection diesel?
When I start my Austral I know it is hot enough when I drop some spit on the fuel valve cage in the top of the hot box and it immediately rolls up into a ball and dances around on the top of the valve cage. I do a similar test on the Blackstone only through the top vent you remove when the lamp is under the vaporiser. How hot does a Hornsby have to be ?
Regards John
PS thanks for this discussion it is  making the old grey matter work 
     

[Kim S]

To my understanding the the Carter type hot bulb has a starting coil and a running coil, be it Austral ? or Blackstone, the Blackstones certainly have, the theory being that by the time the starting coil cools the running coil is then hot enough from the engine running too continue running. I would think running the engines without the starting coil could mean overheating the hot bulb for starting too its detriment ?? about 5 to 7 minutes on the lamp for a Hornsby, most Hornsbys have fins in the hot bulb that holds the heat after start up and little running time. Hornsby hot bulb pic...

Kim

[Austral]

It seems to be time for a bit of clarification here.
Kim S is referring to  Australs as we know them, being "hot bulb" engines and this is simply not true. The only hot bulb versions being from the first 300.
For clarification, look no further than " The Austral Register" with a history compiled by Peter Wilcock, founder and former keeper of the register.
The method of starting and running is clearly explained therein.
Austral.

[Triumphline]

From the register:

Note: The sideshaft Australs are NOT hot bulb engines.
Their vapouriser is a closed horizontal type in the style of a box. The kerosene is admitted by the
vapour valve into the hot vapouriser, the resulting vapour then mixed with fresh air admitted
when the timing valve is opened forming a combustible charge. On the lamp start engines the
initial start is gained from a hot spot, created by the lamp whilst it is heating the vapouriser, on a
hollow tube like chamber, being part of the underside of the vapouriser casting, the two separate
chambers being connected by a small hole. First ignition, and the next few to follow, occurs when
a part of the charge is forced through the hole from the vapouriser into the bottom casting with its
hot spot. Not long after, ignition comes from the igniter now kept incandescent by the heat
created from the ignition of the vapourised fuel. Magneto start engines vapourisers differ, with an
extra chamber for the hot exhaust gases to circulate around the vapouriser on their way out to the
exhaust pipe. The spark plug provides ignition with the petrol vapour admitted until the
vapouriser is hot enough to allow the engine to change over to kerosene. Ignition by the igniter
follows, providing the igniter is incandescent. The ONLY hot bulb engines built by R&T were
engines from "The First 300", the bulb first being heated by lamp, the entering fuel then being
vapourised within the bulb, then along with the admitted air formed a combustible mixture,
resulting in ignition by the hot wall of the bulb. In most cases, the lamp had to remain under the
hot bulb at all times.

[Kim S]

Interesting, by definition a hot bulb engine is "it is a engine in which fuel is ignited by being brought into contact with a red hot metal surface inside a bulb followed by the introduction of air compressed into the chamber by the rising of the piston" ? I would think any lamp start engine that uses surface ignition and not a air vortex causing ignition is all one in the same ? there has been some conjecture over the years about coils in the lower chamber, but would it not be pointless having the lower chamber if nothing is to go in it ?