CLAE gearbox?

[Smokey]

G'day lads.
I have a marine gearbox by CLAE, Forward-Neutral-Reverse, coupled to a Fordson 36hp diesel, commonly known as a CLAE Marine FD36. The engine & box had a full rebuild several years back and has done little work since.
Now the box won't throw into forward from the selector lever, neutral & reverse select and operate as expected.
With the inspection cover off I can 'help' it throw into forward with slight pressure on the internal selectors and it drives quite well once in forward.
Adjusting the main adjustment ring internally makes no difference. Adjusting the external neutral cam makes no difference.
I think the internal selector linkages are worn or stretched.
Does anyone have any suggestions or possibly a diagram or description of the internals?
I will try and attach a pic.
Cheers, Smokey.

[cobbadog]

Sounds like a worn selector doesn't it? If need be built it up with some case harden weld rods.

[Smokey]

Yeah I think so John. I might have answered my own question. I just need to remove the angled linkage (x3) between C and D in the second pic and see what can be done. It would be good to have some original dimensions or drawings to work to but these seem a bit like hens teeth. I don't mind making new ones & getting them hardened, that's the easy part.
Cheers, Smokey.

[cobbadog]

Have a look through the members list to see if you can find a bloke called Auszanni. He has a fairly wide range of both outboard and some inboard engines and is a whiz at finding stuff like this. Even go through some of the recent posts in this section and send him a PM. He is a great bloke to go with it and extremely helpful.

[AusAnzani]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Cobba, however I have a similar problem with the gearbox on my Stuart Turner P55 not engaging/disengaging and have not been able to find any related info and/or fix that either.

Smokey, if you haven't already done so, I would suggest you search CLAE on the discussion boards at www.oldmarineengine.com.

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Spiro

[Smokey]

Thanks for the link Spiro.
I posted the same question there a while back with some good feedback but no fix. I also spoke with Todd from the Old Marine Engine forum, he knows his stuff but I still have the problem. My local old boat 'guru' is also stumped. I will pressure wash the spare box today & see if the linkages are the same, same brand box but different model. I might get lucky.
Starting to think if a new hydraulic box might be easier.
Smokey.

[AusAnzani]

My pleasure.

Make sure the oil levels are up when you're testing for gear engagement and release. That sometimes means the difference between success and failure.

My Stuart is better with the oil level up but still no where near as good as it should be. Also, unlike the CLAE where you have access to the linkages, the gear set on the Stuart must be pulled completely from the gear housing before you can have a good look at what's really going on. Because of that, and the fact that my Stuart is not going back into service, I've decided to leave it as is for now. If it was going back in to a boat, I'd probably have a gearbox specialist go over the whole gearbox to make sure it was 100%.

Hope you can make a good working unit from the spares you have.

Regards,
Spiro

[cobbadog]

I don't know how much clearance you must have between the selectors and the gears but the smaller the gap the more chance of a selection. Even as a test try a few shims in place. If that works then build up the selectors.

[peter dixon]

hi smokey,
I have a working gearbox on an f6. am in Wynyard tas.  I guess that you are probably south of the border and it would be too big a trip for us Tasmanians to drive that far to have a look!  I also have an exposed paragon box behind the regal in my boat and it is similar, forward gear activated by the cone forcing the "fingers" to lock it into crankshaft direction, reverse is by a band activating the epicyclic gears.  also have a complete stuart turner box if spiro wants to come and pick it up!
regards  peter

[Smokey]

John, you might be on the right track. We spent Thursday playing with linkages and decided they are probably ok. Something seems to have moved or worn increasing the distance needed to throw into forward. There is some wear on the brass collar and selector yoke which have both been built up before. If we build up both again to reduce the clearances we might just gain enough to get it running without doing a major rebuild.

Hi Peter. I'm 50ks North of Launceston on York Cove.
I think the spare Clae box I have is F6 or F10, they both look the same in pics. Internal selectors operate on a similar principle as my larger box but are not a straight swap. I can't see how reverse is selected on the F6 box, is it done by the front gear cluster?

[cobbadog]

Hi Smokey,
Before jumping in the deep end maybe worth a chat with a gearbox bloke down there and get his opinion. I would image that the principle of selecting would be similar to automotive boxes. Ask what sort of clearances cars have in that area.

[Smokey]

Done that John, had the manager of the gearbox specialists who did a complete rebuild 5 years ago come and check it out, he wandered off muttering something about maybe some wear internally, he was going to chase up some info. I rang him and dropped in multiple times after that, eventually gave up in disgust with no result. Still waiting for a response. Very disappointed with their service or lack of it. Apparently the ol' guy who worked on the box back then is no longer with us. 
Anyway, now exploring other options & opinions, hence the reason I'm here.
There doesn't seem to be any diagrams of these boxes. Is anyone aware of any floating about? Maybe some dimensions, an exploded view or pics of them in pieces?
I have access to a really good machine shop and a good crew of tradesmen if only we can get some idea of what needs to be done before the box comes out.
Next step might be chasing a replacement hydraulic transmission instead. Anyone got suggestions on that ?

[cobbadog]

That is a shame when people let you down like that. All it takes is a simple phone call to say ''sorry I just don't know'' and that then puts him back near the top of the list of people and companies to stay in touch with. Maybe another gearbox place might be in order.
I can imagine that a hydraulic set up would be fairly pricey but I bet there are some clever blokes here that have adapted pumps from cars or tractors and then hooked them up to a drive motor o some sort. A simple power steering pump should give enough pressure but don't know about a motor to hook it up to.

[peter dixon]

hi again smokey,
cant explain workings properly without pulling my paragon apart again. haven't had the clae f6 one apart but is similar.  forward gear simply locks everything together to rotate at crankshaft speed via a simple clutch system, reverse is by the planetary gear set at front. the tapered flat "bar" closes the band and locks the outer drum thus putting planetary gears into motion to reverse it   to make things more confusing with the f6 you pull the gearlever back to engage forward, push forward for reverse which is about 80% of crankshaft speed. years ago someone near here had a clae with wrong handed propeller. boat went faster in what they thought was reverse than in forward. probably better if you came and had a look. to get here would only be twice the time it took me to type this.
regards  peter  0428136158

[Smokey]

Thanks Peter,
so the F6 is quite a bit different than the F36.  Are F6 & F10 the same do you know?
On my F36 drive forward is lever forward, it also has a 2 to 1 reduction and is about twice as big as the F6.
I have a F6/F10 box which has cleaned up quite well internally, everything appears to be in good working order but it will need seals & bearings. Unfortunately it's no good to me. I hoped it might be a good parts box for the F36.
Not to worry, at least it's been saved from a watery grave, literally.