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Forum Categories => Stationary Engines => Engine Pictures S - U => Topic started by: EMU on 14 July, 2018, 11:11:07 am

Title: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 14 July, 2018, 11:11:07 am
Serial Number *59353*  Rebadge by Cooper  Bettendorf Truck
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 14 July, 2018, 11:18:54 am
Detail passed to Stover expert , serial number ''' last digit '''  shows over stamping it is either 3 0r 8 Or S .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 14 July, 2018, 11:24:10 am
Engine near side ' Crankshaft End ' stamped  E over stamped with an 8 . 41.8 
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: tim on 16 July, 2018, 12:31:28 pm
Hi Emu,
I'm interested to know what you find out and who it was shipped to.
There is a copy of the Stover Engine Registry from 5/25/12 at (https://gasenginemagazine.com/company-history/stover-registry (https://gasenginemagazine.com/company-history/stover-registry))
If you look through the Registry you will see a similar engine listed:  S/No.57850 12/9/1913 6 DX port Invincible Motor Const. Co Sydney Aust.
My understanding is that Cooper bought most of their engines through the Chicago Flexible Shaft Co. Chicago IL


Cheers
Tim
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: Triumphline on 16 July, 2018, 12:50:37 pm
Plate on No.57850
(http://www.oldengine.org/members/pml/myengines/Stover/03081023.JPG)
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 16 July, 2018, 08:39:51 pm
Thanks ,
Tim , The information is coming . I have seen this detail of the "link" you provided , it  is a Transcript of Registry of Shipping there is also a Serial Number Registry . Serial Number registry shows The Manufacturing Date .Not all Engine Serial numbers were recorded in successionso far transcribed year 2012,  at present it is an assumption by accessing by an approximation . Joe Maurer goes to Museum at Free Port , when he has a build up , of serial number requirement from owners . He will know more as he can access the exact dates . Both manufacturer, and shipping . It is a type DX  Model E Standard from what is understood . Prefix ODX is Hopper cooled . The prefix abbreviation " port" may be Portable . It has a Solid Cam Gear "not" Spoked although it has a raised portions of Spokes on the Farside . So this Engine is occurring approx at the time / year of implementation of Solid Cast Cam  Gears . The Junior and Earlier Stovers have the Spoked   Cam Gears . Note: The igniter when bolted to the Igniter Port , the " exotic point "contacts point up , i have seen igniter points pointing down . When viewed inside the port for the igniter, it sits in a recess and a partition directly behind  , so igniter is well away and protected and high up from the oily matrix and low octane ignition flash and combustion full front force . Rather than having been totally exposed . The bottom igniter (1) stud is exposed to the interior water jacket , like the exhaust stud/s on the exhaust . Cooling . Note : No spring Washers used on Engine .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 16 July, 2018, 08:44:12 pm
Very Soft Cast Iron .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 16 July, 2018, 08:56:28 pm
Tim, if you study the registry you will see a 7 hp occurring in the time frame and not shown anywhere else in the detail so far transcribed in the register . 7 hp would be rare . Whether the 7 hp as stated in Shipping register via the link if  it is a vert or horizontal is not known .Very interesting .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 19 July, 2018, 08:20:22 pm
Dykes Encyclopedia of Internal Combustion Engines , section [ compression ] as Compression Deteriorates it becomes a 2 Man Operation , ref ' Starting ' .

If one rocks the flywheels opposite to direction of run [ CCW ] ' note ' the  amount of Compression , then rotate the flywheel in direction of ' Run'  CW , and gives less compression . One has a Compression issue .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 23 July, 2018, 05:24:20 am
Shipped from Free Port Illinois USA Jan 28 1914 . Received by Invincible Motor Co, Sydney Aust . Double checked as the number before was a full base , which this Engine is a Half Base . Full History can be done as it arrived via Steam Assisted Sailing Ship to Townsville Port. I have the original owners name . How many Cooper Stovers DX port E8 hp Standards in Australia .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 23 July, 2018, 05:27:15 am
Many thanks, to Joe Maurer for searching detail at the Ilonoi Stover Museum C.H Wendel Records . Thanks Joe . Very much .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 23 July, 2018, 05:29:08 am
cooper as a Company were in the Process and Purchased Invincible Motor Company . Snap shot in time .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: Eric Schulz on 23 July, 2018, 06:44:37 pm
cooper as a Company were in the Process and Purchased Invincible Motor Company.

When did this happen please?

Eric
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 23 July, 2018, 08:07:03 pm
What happened to the ' Invincible Motor Company ' . Was it a take over .? 
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: Eric Schulz on 23 July, 2018, 08:18:38 pm
Emu, I am confused. I read your post to mean that Cooper Engineering bought Invincible Motors. That's why I asked if you knew when that was as I had not heard of this before.

Eric
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: Eric Schulz on 24 July, 2018, 08:12:16 pm
Because my research is aimed at Australian built engines and tractors, Invincible became less interesting after 1930. As far as I can tell, this would be the last year, give or take a bit, that they made engines here. Even then they contained imported parts.

Looking through a number of catalogues between the 30's and the 50's, there is never any mention of being a part of any other company, apart from Invincible in Chicago.

Advertising seems to end in 1954. Having started in 1906, they probably just ran out of steam.

Eric
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 24 July, 2018, 08:37:15 pm
Eagle Manufacturing Union , Clarke and Faucet Brisbane would have been around at a similar time importing Hercules Engines .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 24 July, 2018, 08:41:16 pm
Interesting enough is that how many Cooper Stovers DX E8 standards exist in Australia ?.
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 24 July, 2018, 08:46:47 pm
I do you read that Cooper had associates for Parts for these Engines,  the Igniter has Cooper stamped underneath . So Cooper did manufacture through association atleat Igniter .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 24 July, 2018, 08:47:44 pm
It's a one of .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 24 July, 2018, 08:51:09 pm
I have been told there is a 5 hp ODX getting around here .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: tim on 26 July, 2018, 12:41:39 pm
From 1912 - I like how Invincible say they could supply Australian or American made!
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: Triumphline on 26 July, 2018, 12:48:01 pm
Edd Payne did a lot of work on an Invincible badged engine (identical to a Stover YA). Edd was positive that it was built by Invincible and not Stover.
Patrick
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: Eric Schulz on 26 July, 2018, 02:05:00 pm
There is no reason to doubt that Invincible Stovers were built here. The following article gives some idea of Invincible's capability. From Australian Motor Boat & Yachting Monthly, Sept 1930:

Invincible Motors, Limited, are celebrating their 25th anniversary during September. It was on September 1, 1906, that Mort's Dock and Engineering Co Ltd, founded their "Invincible Motor Department" at Woolwich Dock, on the Parramatta River.
Due to the foresight of the late JP Franki, general manager of Mort's Dock and Engineering Co, Ltd, the new industry was put on a sound basis at the start by substantial financial allowances and the use of the enormous plant of this large firm.
So to speak, the Invincible Industry may have been started with the lowest possible protection (the Customs duty then being only 20 per cent, as against over, 80 per cent to-day); but otherwise this new industry was born with a golden spoon in its mouth. The resources of Mort's Dock, with its large foundries, forges, and machine shops were at the motor department's disposal from the start. No wonder that within six months a complete line of marine engines from 2-1/2 hp to 80 hp, and comprising 20 different models had been designed, made, and catalogued.
By the middle of 1907 about 150 hands were directly or indirectly employed at the great works, solely on motor work. At that time Invincible marine engines were 100 per cent Australian; even the carburettors were entirely made at Woolwich.
The first manager resigned in 1909, and then the motor department was formed into a separate limited liability company, with Mr KF Boehm as managing director, a position which he has now occupied for 21 years.
The Chief Engineer of Invincible Motors Ltd, Mr WH Rowe, who joined the company In 1909, is still in the same position, and so is Mr EJ Dempsey, one of the original directors.

Eric
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 26 July, 2018, 08:26:46 pm
Thank you very much for this information . It shows that Australia "then" was capable of manufacturing these Engines and others . Incredible reading . Thank you
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 26 July, 2018, 08:29:33 pm
Wow, Australian made thanks for sharing this information .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 26 July, 2018, 08:30:36 pm
Then where does Cooper as a manufacturing Company come into being . In Australia .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: Triumphline on 26 July, 2018, 08:40:23 pm
Wow, Australian made thanks for sharing this information .
Your engine was built by Stover. Cooper didn?t start making their own engines until quite late as they had other sources such as Stover & Chicago Flexible Shaft.
Patrick.
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: Eric Schulz on 27 July, 2018, 09:34:37 am
For the Cooper - Stover connection, a good article appeared in the American Gas Engine Magazine by our own Australian researcher, Ron Wiley. Go to http://gasengine.farmcollector.com/gas-engines/Australian-Built-Stovers.aspx (http://gasengine.farmcollector.com/gas-engines/Australian-Built-Stovers.aspx)

Eric
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 27 July, 2018, 11:32:59 am
Eric, it would be possible that Cooper made parts for a Shortfall . Yes, although I pretty sure they came complete . Long motor, Short motor .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 27 July, 2018, 06:02:52 pm
Found this :http://ozwrenches.com/cooper.htm#11
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 27 July, 2018, 06:12:53 pm
1914 - Towards the end of 1913 Horace Caldwell Wright formerly a buyer of the great Chicago hardware firm of Hibbard, Spencer Bartlett & Co was ask to go to Australia and manage the Cooper Engineering Co. At the beginning of 1914 Mr. M. W. McArdle arrived in Australia with Mr. H. C. Wright. William G. Hodge becomes the assistant manager of company. Mr. McArdle stays on in Sydney for a few weeks and an intensive advertising campaign is carried out to increase the sales of machinery. This looks to explain the December 1914 ad in ?The Pastoral Review?, see comment under Fairbanks Morse engines, In August of 1914 Roland Harry Harrowell, who was the Livestock editor of the Livestock Australasian Pastoral Review and the son of Henry Harrowell, became the Sydney manager of Wm Cooper & Nephews.
 
So this Engine could very well have played a role in his marketing campaign ???.
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 27 July, 2018, 06:20:21 pm
This Cooper / Stover arrived from Freeport Illinoi  to Sydney , on 28 Jan 1914 .
Manufactured Dec 1913 .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 27 July, 2018, 06:22:38 pm
The last number on the serial number is an 8 .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 27 July, 2018, 06:57:04 pm
The Cooper company was founded in 1913
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 28 July, 2018, 08:05:38 am
 Full History can be done as it arrived via Steam Assisted Sailing Ship to Townsville Port or [ Port Denison       Bowen QLD ].
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 30 September, 2018, 03:02:15 pm
Hi , Guys I am seeking advice , 
In relation to the Plans for The Valve Lock [ Fuel Saver ] is ' F ' cut on an Angle to Allow the passing Movement of ' D2 ' . Thanks .
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: tim on 02 October, 2018, 10:40:43 am
Should just work on the arc of the rocker arm.
This is a Type W which I imagine is very similar.

Cheers,
Tim
Title: Re: 1913 DX port 8 HP Cooper Stover ' E ' standard w/m s/b t/c
Post by: EMU on 13 October, 2018, 10:14:46 am
Thank you Tim