Author Topic: Pardon My Ignorance....  (Read 3006 times)

Polybus

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Pardon My Ignorance....
« on: 23 June, 2020, 05:18:20 pm »
At the risk of displaying my own ignorance.....what is this??

I know the engine is a Villiers Mk 20 (a very rough Villiers Mk 20), but what is the gizmo on the right hand side of the engine (as seen in the photos), under the exhaust (no not the carburettor), the other gizmo.

I have a few other Villiers, another Mk20,  a 425H, a bunch of 10s, 12s but none of them have this gadget.

I have looked at heaps of Villiers online, but again, can't find any with this gadget.

Its got some wires coming out of it, so (guessing....)magneto?? instead of the flywheel magneto?  The dial on top completes about 3/4 of a turn - have no idea what that does either.

Can anyone tell me what it is?

Thanks heaps.

Grasshopper

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Re: Pardon My Ignorance....
« Reply #1 on: 23 June, 2020, 07:44:49 pm »
Hello Polybus,
I have had lots of Villiers motors, still have a few and like you I have never seen this fitted to a Villiers.
Hopefully someone will come up with an explanation.
I am most interested to find out.
Cheers Grasshopper Max

asw120

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Re: Pardon My Ignorance....
« Reply #2 on: 23 June, 2020, 09:37:39 pm »
A lighting coil, perhaps?
If you could get it running you may be able to measure some output from it.

Jarrod.

cobbadog

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Re: Pardon My Ignorance....
« Reply #3 on: 23 June, 2020, 10:01:18 pm »
To me it appears to be an oil pump. Black cap for filling oil and 2 pipes on top each side line in n out. Need a pic that is not as blurry to help a bit more. Only problem with my idea of it being a pump, what would it supply the oil to?
Cheers, John & Dee. Coopernook. NSW.

Polybus

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Re: Pardon My Ignorance....
« Reply #4 on: 23 June, 2020, 10:37:38 pm »
Here are some clearer photos.

I was expecting someone to just say "Yeah, its a ......" - I don't feel quite as stupid now.

CobbaDog - those "pipes" are in fact wires. The one on the left loops over and is then earthed to the cowl. The one on the right is just a frayed end, I'm not sure where that is supposed to go yet.


Polybus

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Re: Pardon My Ignorance....
« Reply #5 on: 23 June, 2020, 10:38:32 pm »
More  photos....

Polybus

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Re: Pardon My Ignorance....
« Reply #6 on: 23 June, 2020, 10:40:49 pm »
Actually - I've just been looking over these pictures very much enlarged.

I think I can see "240v" on the front of it - does that help anyone?

Austral

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Re: Pardon My Ignorance....
« Reply #7 on: 24 June, 2020, 10:45:14 am »
240v indicates to me that it is an electrical item. I suggest you remove the cap and check for the components of a generator / alternator. 

Polybus

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Re: Pardon My Ignorance....
« Reply #8 on: 24 June, 2020, 12:49:32 pm »
I agree it is an electrical item of some description.

I am going to make this my next project - if only to open this thing up and find out what it is.

I've just bought a  lathe and a Sandblasting cabinet, so there are major changes happening in the workshop, so unfortunately, it may be a little while until I get to it  :(

It's turning into a real mystery.

Polybus

cobbadog

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Re: Pardon My Ignorance....
« Reply #9 on: 24 June, 2020, 09:00:55 pm »
Is still a nystery. Odd that a 240v only has an earth and one other cable. Definately worth knocking the last 3 screws off that cover to see inside.
Cheers, John & Dee. Coopernook. NSW.

asw120

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Re: Pardon My Ignorance....
« Reply #10 on: 24 June, 2020, 10:02:37 pm »
I wounder if it isn't just a switch someone has put on to kill the ignition. I have seen vaguely similar rotary knob light switches in old commercial buildings.
Dying to see under that cover...

Jarrod.

Polybus

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Re: Pardon My Ignorance....
« Reply #11 on: 24 June, 2020, 10:27:23 pm »
I don't "think" it is a cutout switch - why would they have a 240v rating?  And its a big, substantial solid metal case - way too over engineered for a kill switch I think - but then again - I've got no idea what it is.

And now - I couldn't help myself - I've opened it up - the screws came out surprisingly easily.

Check out these photos - I hope they give someone out there a clue, because I'm still stumped.

The text you can see says:  "Ring Grip" - "Made in Australia" - "Patented".  That's the only text I can see.

There is a mechanism underneath the plastic you can see, but I just can't get a photo of it. The mechanism is worked by the rotating Black Knob and seems to move some type of a cover around whatever is underneath the Black Plastic (not much help - I know).  It seems to remind me just a little bit of a variable capacitor, but I don't think it is.

You will see a couple of small, very corroded screws that hold the entire contents to the cover - I will work at trying to get those out so I can upload some photos of the underside - but the screws are very rusty/correoded, and I'm not sure how much success I'll have.

More later....

wee-allis

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Re: Pardon My Ignorance....
« Reply #12 on: 25 June, 2020, 07:34:02 am »

I would think that the switch is fitted as a cut out as someone said before. The owner of the engine at the time grabbed whatever switch he had handy and it just turned out to be a Ring Grip 240 volt rotary switch.
If it's old, treat it like gold.
 38 Allis B,50 Morris Six,  Moruya, Sth coast NSW.

allisb

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Re: Pardon My Ignorance....
« Reply #13 on: 25 June, 2020, 11:24:54 am »
Agreed. Wouldn?t be the first time for that type of thing. Should be easy enough to track it back and see if it earths out the system.
It?s still all part of the fun!
Rx
I spend most of my pay on old tractors and engines, I tend to waste the rest

Polybus

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Re: Pardon My Ignorance....
« Reply #14 on: 25 June, 2020, 01:55:44 pm »
Well - despite my doubts - I think the Cut-Out switch guys are right.

I had another play with it (stop it!! - I know what you are thinking!!) and put my multimeter on continuity across the two wires - nothing - no matter how I positioned the black knob.

So I gave the wire ends a good clean and repeated - still nothing.

I pulled the wires out of their mounting holes and gave the holes a bit of a clean - and put my multimeter across them - nothing.

I then gave the whole mechanism a good spray with electrical contact cleaner/lube and rotated the knob a dozen or so times, and it gradually started to develop a type of "clicking" feel that one would expect of a switch.

Ahhhhhh....

I once again put my multimeter probes into the wire mounting holes and rotated the black knob. This time I was rewarded with a reasonable clicking type sound as the switch operated, and then a nice BEEEEEEEP from my multimeter!!

I was able to repeat that about a dozen times - Rotate Knob Clockwise - BEEEEEEEEP - Rotate Knob Anti-Clockwise - Silence - Clockwise BEEEEP - you get the idea.

I have now put it back together and back onto its mount and if I put my multimeter across that frayed wire hanging out of the "switch" and and earth point on the engine's head - same thing - BEEEEP - No Beep depending on the position of the switch.

So it's definitely a switch!! And despite my reluctance to believe it - I think that means it is almost certainly an after-market ON/Off switch for the engine - I can't really think of any other use a switch might have.

Most of you kinda had it figured out way before me - but Wee-Allis has probably summed it up pretty well.

The owner of the engine at the time grabbed whatever switch he had handy and it just turned out to be a Ring Grip 240 volt rotary switch.

I think we might be able to safely say the mystery is solved.

I really like restoring engines to their "From the Factory" condition - but I think I am going to leave this switch on this one - I guess its part of the engine's history - and quite interesting.

Once again - Thanks guys - once again - a great fount of information  :)

Polybus