Author Topic: Mf 35 23C engine  (Read 458 times)

AUSDOK

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Mf 35 23C engine
« on: 04 December, 2020, 05:01:48 pm »
Hi I was talking with a guy who told me the information in the manual regarding the timing of the fuel pump was incorrect and caused difficulty in starting. He remembers that the no 1 cylinder had to be tdc and number 4 rocking. After that he mentioned a circlip. Any help would be appreciated.  Regards Rudy

cobbadog

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Re: Mf 35 23C engine
« Reply #1 on: 04 December, 2020, 10:17:18 pm »
Hi Rudy, the 23C engine, the old Vanguard engine, have a reputation for being bad starters on the diesel models. In the UK they do a modification to the head by enlarging or making a combustion chamber in the head and a  bloke who write for Tractor Farming Heritage named Ben Phiilips has done a heap of the modifications.
#1 on TDC and #4 on the rock is standard  so that part is right but I have not done a diesel engine on one of these so sorry I cannot offer any info, nor about a circlip where ever it is. For me I would proceed as per the manual setting everything up going by that. Maybe the circlip mentioned is something to do with the pump itself so have a good look around it and if you find one buy a nice new one as I am guessing it may loose tension with age. The very worse thing that can happen is it won't start and there should be enough clearance between valves and pistons so no damage can happen.
Another option on these engines was what they called KI Gas which was an option of adding (fuel?) to the inlet manifold to aid in cold starts. At rallies I have seen all sorts of later cold start options added to the inlet manifold. Ones that have a small can to hold diesel that feeds the fuel via a copper line to a glow plug type fitting. While you press the button the fuel drips onto the glow plug and ignits inside the manufold and warms the intake air.
Cheers, John & Dee. Coopernook. NSW.

wee-allis

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Re: Mf 35 23C engine
« Reply #2 on: 05 December, 2020, 07:34:14 am »

Rudy, firstly, lets clear up the story of the Ferguson engine being a Vanguard car engine. It is not and never was, with the exception of the 23 diesel being fitted to a few Vanguard vehicles. Even in these, they only shared the block, crank and rods. The 23C engine is different again.The petrol engines shared more components but even the blocks are different.

The circlip mentioned is in the injection pump. You locate it after removing the side plate on the pump.  As the pump rotates you will notice a series of letters on a wheel towards the rear end of the opening. As each one passes the end of the circlip a scribe mark will line up with the square end of that clip.

Now it has been many moons since I did one of these, but my feeble memory tells me that the letter to have lining up is "E". If the pump has been installed correctly, you fine tune the timing by slackening off the mounting bolts and rotating the body to align the marks.

With good compression and fuel delivery, these engines are no harder to start than any other diesel.

Hope this helps.
Steve.
If it's old, treat it like gold.
 38 Allis B,50 Morris Six,  Moruya, Sth coast NSW.

AUSDOK

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Re: Mf 35 23C engine
« Reply #3 on: 05 December, 2020, 08:55:31 am »
Hi Steve thanks for your reply. I have spoken to a local tractor repair co, and they agree with what you say .the letter mentioned was G . He will forward me the details of how to adjust it to the new specs. He also agrees that the original information is incorrect. If people are interested when I receive the information I will post it to this forum if I can work out how to do that. We started the engine on Thursday after a lot of difficulties. But once running for over 2 hours all the pressures where good and no smoke .I have probably spent way too much on this tractor but I don't think that I would be alone in that department. Regards Rudy

wee-allis

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Re: Mf 35 23C engine
« Reply #4 on: 05 December, 2020, 12:56:57 pm »

Your welcome Rudy,  As for spending too much, it's all subjective. Either way, when they are properly sorted, they are a great little tractor either show or work.
Steve.
If it's old, treat it like gold.
 38 Allis B,50 Morris Six,  Moruya, Sth coast NSW.

cobbadog

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Re: Mf 35 23C engine
« Reply #5 on: 05 December, 2020, 01:21:09 pm »
Learn something new each day. I was always told that they are the old Vanguard motor and the only difference that I picked up on was the intake ports on the head being partially closed. Same with the engines being known as hard starters, this is again something I have read about in tractor mags from the UK and the steps that were taken to improve the starting.
Not for one minute do I doubt your knowledge Steve and is why I said what I did and why I learnt something new. Now to retain it all.
Glad you have it running and yes it would be good to see the new specs.
Cheers, John & Dee. Coopernook. NSW.

wee-allis

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Re: Mf 35 23C engine
« Reply #6 on: 05 December, 2020, 03:29:50 pm »


No stress Cobba, everyone who knows nothing about them thinks they are the same engine, me included, until I started working on them 50 years ago.

Few people realise that you see the petrol version fitted to some of the early Ford Dextas.

Steve.
If it's old, treat it like gold.
 38 Allis B,50 Morris Six,  Moruya, Sth coast NSW.

cobbadog

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Re: Mf 35 23C engine
« Reply #7 on: 05 December, 2020, 09:50:31 pm »
Yeah, the SMC was used in a couple of tractors. Found it odd going by the data that with the reduced size of the inlet ports helped with torque in the engine.
Cheers, John & Dee. Coopernook. NSW.

winnock

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Re: Mf 35 23C engine
« Reply #8 on: 05 December, 2020, 11:31:15 pm »
My father bought a Diesel Vanguard in 1955 and I drove it for 250,000 miles. It is still going although in retirement on club plates. The Vanguard engine was the 20C model, similar to that used in the TEF20 tractor. The 23C engine is used in MF35 tractors. The 20C has an inline injector pump and I consider were a better cold starter than the 23C which has a DPA rotary type pump. About the only differences between the 20c Vanguard engine and the tractor engine were the inlet manifold, governor, piston to liner clearance, rear oil seal and the drive end of the crankshaft. Injection timing on both 20C and 23C engines was by locking the flywheel in position by inserting a pin through a hole in the engine block. Valves to be rocking on No 4. In some DPA pumps the circlip has a square end but on early pumps there is usually a timing mark on the clip. I could look up the timing letter but as you have it running it will be correct.
Hugh
Diesel fuel injection equipment & vintage windmills.

AUSDOK

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Re: Mf 35 23C engine
« Reply #9 on: 06 December, 2020, 08:47:33 am »
Hi the engine has been rebuilt from the sump up. The only thing not done qas the main bearings as I could not get 29thou oversize. I have slashed with a 5 foot slasher for several hours. The problem is only with starting. The fuel does run into the manifold and there is a flame there. Will aqait the info and see if it is okay. Thanks for your replies.  Rudy

winnock

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Re: Mf 35 23C engine
« Reply #10 on: 06 December, 2020, 10:53:08 pm »
Hi Rudy. Some more information that may be of interest.
Hugh
Diesel fuel injection equipment & vintage windmills.

AUSDOK

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Re: Mf 35 23C engine
« Reply #11 on: 07 December, 2020, 07:18:16 am »
Thanks Hugh there is some good information there. regards Rudy